Erin Edwards opened her session with a small story that turned out to be a pivot point in her organization's continuous improvement journey, and that captures the temperature of where Four Seasons Produce was in early 2014.
She walked back to her desk one morning and found an empty toilet paper roll sitting on top. No note. No explanation. Just the empty roll. She was, in her words, a little baffled — and a little intimidated. Who would do this? Was someone making fun of the CI program? What was happening?
Then she realized it was a gift. Whoever had left the empty roll on her desk was thinking about waste — actual physical waste, the kind that shows up at the end of a process when something gets used up. The person was thinking Lean, whether they knew it or not. The empty roll wasn't a complaint. It was a signal that the concept had landed.
Erin wrote a short article for the company's weekly internal newsletter, the Grapevine, with the empty toilet paper roll as the centerpiece. The message: you get it. You're thinking Lean whether you realize it or not. The article sparked conversation around the office. People who hadn't been engaging with the CI material before started to bring it up.
The next week, she was preparing for her first-ever presentation to the company's board. She'd never spoken to the board about continuous improvement and was looking for a way to convey what CI actually meant in practice — not the textbook definitions, but the recognizable everyday version. On a whim, she grabbed the empty toilet paper roll image and took it with her.
The board meeting went well. Smiles, discussion, a few chuckles. The next day she got a message from one of the board members — a photo of an empty toilet paper roll on the bar with the caption "progress already."
Whether that board member actually got it or was just being playful, Erin wasn't entirely sure. But the conversation had stuck. The CI program had landed somewhere it hadn't before. For someone who, at the time, was the entire CI function at the company — one person, working alone — the empty toilet paper roll was a small but real win.
This session is the rest of that story. Erin walked the audience through a five-year journey at Four Seasons Produce, from a starting point where she and the company's first project manager joined the company one week apart in April 2012 to a current state where the organization was actively designing what they called an innovation team — a deliberate integration of continuous improvement and project management capabilities into a single coordinated function. The path wasn't linear. The lessons were specific. The future-state model is something most CI practitioners and PMO leaders haven't seen articulated this concretely from inside a real organization.
Erin Edwards is the Continuous Improvement Manager at Four Seasons Produce in Ephrata, Pennsylvania. She is a PMP-certified project manager with experience in both project management and continuous improvement. She graduated from Shippensburg University with a Bachelor of Science degree in Information Management and Analysis with a focus in supply chain. She started her career with Exel Logistics in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, where she joined the Leadership Development Program and worked in operations, transportation, and project management. As a project manager at Exel she supported international projects in the Alberta oil sands, the Gulf Coast oil industry, and the airline industry in England. She later worked as a project manager at Bravo Health in Baltimore before joining Four Seasons Produce in 2012.
Four Seasons Produce is a full-service wholesale distributor of fresh produce — organic, local, and conventional — supplying organic markets, food co-ops, independent retailers, chain stores, juice bars, and other produce buyers across the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast. The company was founded by David Hollinger and his wife Debbie in June 1976, starting in a 5,000 square foot warehouse in Denver, PA. At the time of the webinar, the company was celebrating its 40th anniversary from a 262,000 square foot facility in Ephrata, Pennsylvania, with a recent 25,000 square foot warehouse expansion and additional truck garages for the fleet.
The operation runs 11 climate zones for produce storage at ideal temperature and humidity, holds an average of five days of inventory across 8,100 pallet spaces of refrigerated storage, ripens bananas and avocados to customer specifications across 20 ripening rooms, and provides custom value-added packing services including clamshells, mesh-net bagging, case reconfigurations, and private labeling. Inbound shipments arrive between 6 AM and 2 PM. Outbound picking, staging, and loading runs from 2 PM through 6 AM the following morning. The full family of companies — Four Seasons Produce, Sunrise Logistics/Source Trading, and the transportation group — totals just under 700 employees.
Erin's honest assessment of her first year is worth pulling out, because it describes a starting point most CI practitioners will recognize.
She joined Four Seasons Produce as a project manager, not as a CI specialist. She wasn't up to speed on Lean or continuous improvement concepts. The company had decided to "do Lean" and the operational model that emerged was, in her words, "here's the tools, go do it." Tools were available. People were instructed to use them. There wasn't a clear overall vision or direction.
Her focus was operations — warehouse and packing. The broader organization wasn't yet integrated into the CI effort. Wholesale buying, quality, HR — all the functions feeding into and out of operations — weren't part of the work. Senior managers were driving projects from the top. Supervisors and frontline hourly associates weren't engaged or educated. Meetings happened away from the floor.
The communication strategy that first year was technical articles in the weekly Grapevine newsletter. Tool talk. Trying to get associates to understand what Lean was by explaining the methodology. The articles weren't landing. The associates weren't reading them. The CI work felt like something being done to the organization rather than with it.
The first year produced eight projects with about 18 different people involved. It wasn't a bad year. It wasn't a good year either. It was a starting point, and Erin was honest that she and her counterparts didn't have the wherewithal at the time to know better. They had been told to do Lean. They were doing the best they could with the assumptions they'd inherited.
The shift in 2013 came from recognizing that pushing tools wasn't working. The team needed to engage people differently.
Erin and her colleagues started working on cross-functional projects rather than purely operational ones, which forced the question of whether the language people were using actually meant anything to the people they were trying to engage. They started educating shift managers and leads to deliver weekly Lean topics to their teams using a structured format — tell the team on day one, remind on day two, ask on day three. The format built across weeks, layering on the previous week's content as it went.
The format had problems. The managers weren't fully comfortable with the content. Consistency varied across teams. Follow-up was hard. And when managers shared a topic and got silence in response, it was hard to encourage them to keep pushing.
What worked better, and started in November 2013, were associate-led continuous improvement teams. These were hourly associates on the floor — not managers — who solicited ideas from other associates, updated their teams during daily shift meetings, and were responsible for implementing the ideas they collected. Erin's role was to support and facilitate.
These teams had challenges too. The associates didn't know Lean well. They struggled with how to engage their coworkers in conversation. They were uncertain whether they had the authority to do anything. Erin had to instill in them that they had influence even if they didn't have positional authority, and that they needed to build on that influence rather than wait for permission.
What worked exceptionally well was that the associates knew the business and the people. They were the most creative with ideas. And the conversations between associates — peer to peer rather than manager to associate — produced engagement that the top-down communication hadn't. Erin's team took some of the repetitive communication efforts that had been falling flat through managers and shifted them to the CI teams, who carried them differently because they were one floor associate talking to another.
The Grapevine articles also evolved during 2013. Erin's team moved away from technical Lean content and toward stories about specific accomplishments — a packing line that had spent several months developing a new process, the people who had done the work, the pride they took in it. The articles became more about people than about methodology. Coworkers in other parts of the business started understanding what was happening, who to talk to, what challenges different areas were facing. The shift was deliberate. Erin called it moving from educating to cheerleading.
The year ended at 34 projects and almost 100 associates involved. But the most consequential moment came from a single cross-functional project — the first time sales, buying, packing, and quality had all sat in one room together to look at a process. Erin spent significant front-end effort defining the current state on the wall in sticky notes before the team arrived, so there was something concrete to start from rather than starting from scratch.
The result was a meaningful shift. For the first time in her tenure — and possibly longer — people looked at the process rather than at each other. The human element receded. Participants discovered how much their work was impacting someone else, often without knowing it. Erin saw genuine teamwork emerge, give-and-take across departments, and frontline associates for the first time saying "I can do this to help you." Three or four of the participants approached her at the end and asked to work on the next project. They were ready. The pace was theirs. The decision was theirs. And the value of continuous improvement finally landed for them in a way that the previous two years of communication hadn't quite produced.
By 2014, the foundation had been laid for the year that the empty toilet paper roll showed up on Erin's desk.
The training year focused on people. New hire orientation included a 20-minute CI module with a Lego car-building activity demonstrating the value of visual instructions versus written ones. The associate-led CI teams received quarterly training on topics they were struggling with. All packing and warehouse associates went through a 90-minute exercise where they drove the conversation, defining Lean and continuous improvement in their own words and then working through an activity together. Cafe associates, facilities associates, project management associates — everyone in the organization went through some form of training that year.
Gemba walks were introduced both internally and through a local Lean network that brought peer organizations together to share practices. Leadership development became its own monthly track — 90 minutes per session, content driven by what the leadership team said they needed help with, taught by a mix of outside speakers and internal team members.
The biggest operational change in 2014 was bringing in KaiNexus. The administrative burden of tracking improvements through spreadsheets and email had been cutting Erin's time in half. The platform freed her to focus on people. It also made the impact numbers visible to the executive team more quickly than the manual tracking had ever managed.
The year ended at over 200 ideas and 170 people engaged. The training sessions had produced a flood of ideas because each one ended with the same question: what can we do to make your job easier? Real participation was happening across the organization for the first time.
And the empty toilet paper roll had moved from a confusing object on a desk to a board-level conversation about what continuous improvement actually meant.
The 2015 work shifted toward targets and goals. People had started asking what they were aiming for, and the absence of clear targets had become a constraint.
Erin's team leveraged Toyota Kata methodology with some projects, giving associates guidelines and letting them drive the work. The previous habit had been to hand people specific targets and goals. With Kata, the team established a target condition and let the people doing the work figure out how to close the gap. The associates consistently beat the targets that they were setting for themselves. The sense of empowerment produced visible pride in the work.
One specific example: a team that probably wouldn't have told you they were capable of making improvements on their line created enough capacity through their own work that they could dedicate people to data collection, reporting, and sharing results with their team. They learned a substantial amount in the process, and the improvements they generated were genuinely theirs.
Erin's team grew that year, adding a second CI support person. A recognition program was launched, addressing a gap that hadn't been about CI specifically but had affected the broader culture of acknowledging people who went above and beyond.
The year built on the existing momentum without dramatic shifts. By the end of 2015, the CI program had a structure that worked, a culture that was engaging the workforce, and the beginnings of clearer connections between daily improvement work and broader business priorities.
The shift in 2016 came from a recognition that the CI function and the project management function were often working on the same problems from different directions.
Both groups had grown. Project management had expanded from one person to a director of strategic projects plus business analysts, project managers, training resources, and additional support. CI had grown from Erin alone to a team of two. Operations had launched two large-scale system implementations in 2016 — order management and transportation management — replacing six systems with two.
The pattern that had emerged was structural. CI was working on improvements. PMO was working on projects. The same business challenges were getting addressed by both groups in parallel. The right hand often didn't know what the left hand was doing. And in some cases, the two were duplicating effort or working at cross purposes without realizing it.
The concept that emerged in early 2016 — initially called BPM (Business Process Management) — was to combine project management, continuous improvement, and possibly some IT capabilities into a single coordinated function. A small team was assembled to develop the concept. Input was gathered from outside organizations on how they handled the integration. The concept was reviewed and approved by the executive team.
Then the peak season hit. Four Seasons Produce is a highly seasonal business. From early May through Labor Day, volume increases dramatically — nightly selector volume goes up by 10,000 to 12,000 cases. During peak season, the organization is focused on servicing customers and avoiding service issues. The BPM concept work was put on hold.
The restart in August 2016 brought a different small group and a more focused scope. Erin, the VP of Innovation, and the Director of Strategic Projects sat down to take what had been left in April and move it forward. The new framing was the innovation team — explicitly combining the best of CI and the best of PMO into a single capability.
Erin walked through what each function brought to the integration.
From continuous improvement: methods and processes. The kaizen approach. Quick changes. Pushing efforts through the system fast. The "let's try it" mindset for quick wins. The use of KaiNexus to manage solutions and capture results across high volumes of small improvements.
From project management: dedicated resources. This was the gap Erin identified most clearly on the CI side. When a CI effort needed system modifications, data work, or additional support, the team had to put in an IT request or wait for someone to be available. The roadblock was real. The integration would bring dedicated team members — business analysts, developers, IT roles — into a single function so the work could move faster.
Agile methodology. Erin drew the connection explicitly. Agile in software development looks structurally similar to kaizen in CI — quick iterations, short cycles, minimum viable artifacts, willingness to ship something and adjust. The methodology fits naturally with the CI mindset rather than fighting it.
The innovation team would use sprint concepts (similar to kaizen events) to achieve business value in short time windows. A product owner would drive priorities based on organizational objectives, sitting with the executive team to ensure that what the innovation team was building actually fit the priority list. The team would develop solutions based on shifting business priorities rather than executing a fixed annual plan.
The expected outcomes Erin named: improved margin, lower costs, maximized revenue, and achievement of the ROI established for the major system implementations. The team would look at value streams across technologies, assets, and other teams — and would ultimately service customers better by using the organization's resources more efficiently.
The plan was to launch the first innovation team alongside the first core system implementation, then add additional dedicated innovation teams to support specific areas or system suites. Each team would develop deep expertise in its area and continue pushing improvements quickly. The goal was to stay in front of competitors and meet customer expectations in a market that was advancing rapidly.
A question came in about how seasonality affected the CI work. Erin's answer was a useful pattern that generalizes beyond produce distribution.
From about the end of peak season through the end of March is the window for significant process improvements and step changes. From early May through Labor Day is peak operational mode, when the focus is getting volume out to customers and avoiding service issues. The team makes small improvements during peak season but doesn't attempt big step changes.
Mark added a parallel pattern he'd seen in healthcare, where seasonality (flu season, patient volume spikes) creates the same dynamic. The ideal might be everyone doing small improvements every day everywhere. In practice, the small stuff finds time during peak periods, and the bigger changes queue up for off-peak windows. The off-peak time gets used for improvement work that wouldn't fit during the high-volume periods. The pattern level-loads the workload across the year and uses peak-and-trough cycles deliberately rather than letting them produce idle time.
Erin added a related observation about sustainment. The challenge during peak season isn't just executing the operational work. It's continuing to prove to people that the new processes are worth sustaining. There's a tendency during high-volume periods to slip back into old habits because the new process feels harder. The discipline required to keep people focused on the improved standard during peak periods is its own form of effort.
A question came in about whether being a family business created anything unique for the CI work. Erin's answer was practical.
The current CEO is "100 percent bought in" to continuous improvement. The owner's son, who would be taking over the CEO role in roughly two and a half years, is engaged at a different level. The ownership engagement is a real asset to the program.
The biggest adjustment Erin had made early in her tenure was a terminology one. In her first year, she had sat at one end of a table while leadership pounded fists and said "we will not do Lean." She thought she had done a poor job that day. The change that resolved the issue was reframing the work as continuous improvement rather than as Lean, and aligning it explicitly with the company's core values. After that shift, she had never had a similar issue. The leadership was happy to say "this is what we've done the whole time." The language change wasn't cosmetic. It made the work land differently for an audience that had been resistant to the "Lean" label.
A surprisingly honest exchange came on the question of how the executive team set strategic direction for the CI work to align to.
Erin's answer: that was an open question at the time of the webinar. The CEO was a strong proponent of morale and kept a pulse on the organization based on it. If morale was good, he was satisfied. That created a challenge for someone like Erin coming from a "what's my goal, what's my target, where are we shooting for" background. The CI program had never been held to specific dollar savings, ROI targets, or quantified annual objectives.
Erin was actively pursuing more explicit strategic alignment as she heard the question. The innovation team concept was partly an answer to it — by integrating CI and PMO under a single function with shared priorities driven from the executive team, the gap between strategic direction and improvement work would close. But she was honest that the gap existed, that she was working on it, and that she didn't have it solved.
The exchange was useful because most CI practitioners working in real organizations face some version of this challenge. The strategic alignment that exists in the textbooks rarely exists by default in actual companies. Building it is part of the work.
Another honest answer from Erin came on a perennial question: how do you schedule time for improvement teams in a high-throughput operational environment?
Her answer was that the team hadn't found the silver bullet. They had tried having associates come in early on overtime, blocking time with managers to make people unavailable for 30 minutes, keeping chunks of time small enough to handle quick improvement ideas. None of it worked consistently. It remained one of their unsolved challenges.
Mark added a complementary perspective from healthcare. The same problem exists when patient flow can't be paused for kaizen work. Some strategies that help: maintaining a list of "just-do-its" so that when time presents itself, the team isn't scrambling to figure out what to work on. Recognizing that making time for improvement is itself the leadership problem to solve, rather than treating "we're too busy" as a permanent answer.
Erin added a related insight from her current interim role running warehouse operations on the night shift. She had noticed a lack of clarity about roles and responsibilities — who was responsible for what at the manager, assistant manager, and lead level. She suspected that clarifying roles would free up significant capacity for improvement work, because most people want ownership of the things that fall within their group and want to build and learn more. Distributing leadership work more clearly — rather than putting all the monkeys on the managers' backs — would create the capacity that pure scheduling discipline couldn't.
The final question Mark posed was the big one. Had the work over five years transformed the company culture?
Erin's answer was specific. People at the company in 2012 didn't understand continuous improvement and thought she was there for operations only. By 2016, the leadership team — executive level included — was consistently asking how continuous improvement fit into the work being discussed. That conversation hadn't happened four and a half years earlier. The shift was real.
The conversation that landed hardest for her was the one with the owner's son about the innovation team concept. When she presented the model, he said: "I know the value is there. I like this. I don't need to see the cost of it because I know they pay for themselves." That comment from incoming leadership, made without prompting, wouldn't have happened at the start of the journey. The culture had shifted enough that the value of the work was simply assumed rather than needing to be defended.
The journey Erin described is the journey of an organization moving from CI as a side function to CI as integrated infrastructure. KaiNexus shows up at a specific point in that journey — the 2014 transition — and the role it played is worth pulling out because it generalizes.
Erin's description of what the platform did was practical. The administrative burden of tracking improvements through spreadsheets and email was consuming half her time. Replacing the manual tracking with KaiNexus freed her to focus on people. The impact numbers became visible to the executive team much faster than the spreadsheet approach had managed. The platform was easy enough to use that adoption wasn't a barrier.
That sequence — manual tracking eating the CI lead's time, infrastructure replacing it, the freed-up time going into the work that actually matters — is the pattern most CI programs experience as they scale past the point where one person can keep everything in their head. The platform isn't doing the improvement work. The platform is removing the administrative friction that prevents the CI lead from doing the leadership and engagement work that drives the program.
The innovation team concept Erin walked through depends on this kind of infrastructure even more heavily. Coordinating CI work and PMO work and IT capacity in a single function — with shared priorities, shared visibility, and shared resource allocation — requires a system where everything is trackable and visible across the team. Without that, the integration that Erin's organization was designing would fragment back into separate tracking systems and the silos would reassert themselves through the tools rather than through the org chart.
The visibility piece matters for executive engagement too. Erin's note about executives starting to ask "how does CI fit into this?" depends on the executives being able to see what CI is producing. The dashboard, the impact summary, the user engagement summary — these are what makes the work legible to leaders who aren't in the middle of it. The cultural shift Erin described didn't happen because she explained the value better. It happened because the evidence of the value became visible to people who hadn't previously seen it.
None of this changes what Erin and her team were doing. The training is the training. The cross-functional projects are the projects. The empty toilet paper roll on the desk is the empty toilet paper roll. What infrastructure does is keep the work from getting buried in administrative overhead and make the cumulative impact visible at the level of executives, board members, and incoming leadership.
What does the innovation team concept actually combine? Two things that most organizations run separately. From continuous improvement, the methods and processes — the kaizen mindset, quick wins, willingness to try and adjust, the daily discipline of identifying and acting on improvements. From project management, the dedicated resources — business analysts, developers, IT roles — that CI work normally has to request from other functions and wait for. Adding agile methodology as the operational framework lets the integrated team work in sprints similar to kaizen events. A product owner sits with the executive team to drive priorities. The result is a function that handles both small improvements and large projects without the duplication and coordination gaps that come from running them separately.
Why did Four Seasons Produce decide to integrate CI and PMO? Because they kept working on the same problems from different directions. Both groups had grown over several years. CI was running improvements. PMO was running projects. The right hand often didn't know what the left hand was doing. Some efforts duplicated each other. Some worked at cross purposes. The leadership team recognized that the duplicated effort and missed coordination were limiting the impact of both functions, and that combining them would produce more strategic alignment and faster execution than running them separately.
How long did the journey take? The session covered roughly five years — from April 2012, when Erin joined the company and the company's first project manager started the same week, through 2016 when the innovation team concept was being actively designed. The journey wasn't linear. There were years of pushing tools without a vision, years of cross-functional work and engagement, years of training and gemba practice, years of adding targets and goals. The integration of CI and PMO was the natural next step at a point when both functions had matured enough to coordinate rather than compete.
What was Erin's biggest early mistake? Pushing tools without a vision. In 2012, the company had decided to "do Lean" and the operational model was "here's the tools, go do it." Tools were available. People were instructed to use them. There wasn't a clear vision or direction connecting the tools to anything that mattered to the business or to the people doing the work. The result was eight projects and 18 people engaged in a full year. The lesson was that methodology without vision and engagement produces minimal traction, regardless of how good the tools are.
What was the turning point in the journey? The first cross-functional project in 2013 where sales, buying, packing, and quality all sat in one room together. Erin had spent significant front-end time defining the current state on the wall in sticky notes before the team arrived. The participants spent the meeting looking at the process rather than at each other. The human element receded. People discovered how much their work was impacting other functions. By the end of the meeting, three or four associates approached Erin asking to work on the next project — at their own pace, on their own decision. That was the moment when continuous improvement landed for the workforce in a way that two years of communication hadn't quite produced.
What was the empty toilet paper roll story about? Someone left an empty toilet paper roll on Erin's desk in early 2014, with no note or explanation. Erin's initial reaction was confusion — was someone making fun of the CI program? Then she realized it was a signal that the concept of waste had landed for someone in the organization. The person was thinking Lean, whether they knew it or not. Erin wrote a short article about the empty roll for the internal newsletter, took the image to her first board presentation a week later, and got back a photo from a board member of an empty toilet paper roll on a bar with the caption "progress already." Whether the board member fully got it or not, the conversation had stuck. The empty toilet paper roll became Erin's marker for the moment when CI started landing at the leadership level.
How did Erin handle the "we will not do Lean" moment with leadership? By reframing the work. In her first year, she sat at a table while leadership pounded fists and refused the Lean label. She changed the language to "continuous improvement" and aligned it explicitly with the company's core values. After that shift, she never had a similar issue. The leadership was happy to say "this is what we've done the whole time." The language change wasn't cosmetic. It made the work land differently for an audience that had been resistant to the original term.
What is the role of communication versus education in CI work? Erin's framing evolved across the journey. Year one used technical articles in the company newsletter to explain Lean methodology. Year two shifted to structured communication through managers using a tell-remind-ask format. Year three moved further toward stories about specific accomplishments and the people who did the work — what Erin called the shift from educating to cheerleading. The most engaging communication wasn't the explanation of what Lean was. It was the visibility of what people in the organization were actually doing and accomplishing.
Why associate-led CI teams rather than manager-driven ones? Because the peer-to-peer dynamic produced different engagement than top-down communication. The associate-led teams started in November 2013. The associates didn't know Lean well and struggled with how to engage their coworkers in conversation. But they knew the business, knew the people, and were the most creative with ideas. The conversations they had with their peers landed differently than the same conversations being delivered through managers. Erin's team moved some of the communication efforts that had been falling flat through managers and shifted them to the CI teams instead, which carried them differently.
How did Four Seasons Produce handle the seasonal business cycle? By using the off-peak window for big improvement work and limiting peak season to small improvements. From end of peak season through end of March is the window for significant process changes and step changes. From early May through Labor Day is peak operational mode with the focus on volume and customer service. Big step changes don't happen during peak. Small improvements continue. The pattern level-loads the improvement workload across the year and uses peak-and-trough cycles deliberately. Mark added that the same pattern works in healthcare and other seasonal industries — using slow periods for the bigger improvement investments rather than letting them produce idle time.
What about the challenge of finding time for improvement teams in a high-throughput operation? Erin was honest that her team hadn't found the silver bullet. They had tried overtime, blocked manager time, small time chunks. None of it worked consistently. The challenge remained unsolved at the time of the webinar. What helped at the margin: keeping a list of just-do-its so time wasn't wasted when it appeared, clarifying roles and responsibilities so the work distribution made more sense, and recognizing that finding time for improvement is itself one of the leadership problems to solve rather than a permanent constraint.
How did the company's family-business structure affect the CI work? The current CEO is fully bought in to continuous improvement, and the owner's son (incoming CEO within two and a half years of the webinar) is engaged at a different level. The ownership engagement is a real asset to the program. The biggest adjustment Erin had made was terminology — moving from "Lean" to "continuous improvement" and aligning the work with the company's core values. After that change, leadership engagement was no longer a barrier.
What was Erin's biggest indicator of culture change over five years? A conversation with the owner's son about the innovation team concept. When she presented the model, he said: "I know the value is there. I like this. I don't need to see the cost of it because I know they pay for themselves." That comment from incoming leadership, made without prompting, would not have happened at the start of the journey. The culture had shifted enough that the value of the work was assumed rather than needing to be defended.
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